Oct 11 2010
Trophy race courses
Having just sailed in the Access Autumn trophy today, i have a few questions which i can’t find the answer to;
When I asked the RO if the start gate was to be avoided downwind (as it was a windward leward course) – i was kindly advised to look at the sailing instructions. I haven’t seen any SI’s for the individual race, and having looked at the one’s on this website, i also can’t find the answer. Can anyone shed some light on this, as i can’t see the answer. Any help much appreciated?
Also are additional details on the course to be supplied on the committee boat? Only i didn’t see any details apart from ‘windward leward course’ written on the blackboard on shore. Are we to assume a port hand rounding and use of orange inflatables for all trophy races?
Any help for future races appreciated.
Graham
15 Responses to “Trophy race courses”
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Hi Graham glad you can find the time during the day to moan about the race on Saturday.
In answer to your questions.
1:A red flag on the committee boat should suffice to enable you to see it was a port hand course.
2:We were not flying the “using the club buoy’s” flag which again should tell you we were using the big orange things floating in the area of the start line, the windward mark and the leeward mark.
3: You may have a bit of a point but there are sailing instructions that state going through the gate on the downwind leg was at the discretion of the race officer.
Hope this answers your questions,if in future you feel the need to e-mail me on any of these issues be my guest.
Though in future I will ask the Sailing secretary (who is a volunteer and probably has enough on his hands) to assist every race officer to ensure all these issues do not raise there ugly head again
Regards Spratty
I would just like to say that I was the designated race officer for Saturday’s race and although I have never been asked to do the job before, I willingly accepted the challenge.
To ensure that all went smoothly Paul Spratt and I asked for help from other members, Lisa Farrell and Gordon Sanders to oversee things and in all fairness Lisa and Paul did all the paperwork while I watched and absorbed information just in case I was asked again.
It’s not an easy task and does require alot of concentration for the duration of the event, I am most gratefull for the help of Lisa and Gordon. (Still owe Lisa chocolates and Gordon of course demanded his renumeration at the bar)
I fully appreciate the importance of a good race officer, however we probably need a few more of us to come up through the ranks.
So go on and ask the race officer of the day if you can observe as I am sure the time will come for all of us on the water.
Martyn Eyre
Paul, thanks for all this information. Firstly – you have misunderstood the context of my enquiry; I was not moaning about the race. In fact, quite the opposite – i was eager to thank the whole race crew when i crossed the line to say thank you for an excellent course. In response to your information;
1. Thanks – i had no idea what the red flag meant.
2. Thanks – again i have no idea what half of the flags mean.
3. I asked this question as nobody seemed to know if we were allowed to go through the gate downwind. That is why i asked you on the water, and have then asked again (on here) having not found an answer in the S.I’s or the changing rooms. Does this mean that we should ask the RO if we are unsure? As it is at his/her discretion?
Martyn, as I said to Paul – i was eager to thank you all for a good race on Saturday. I’d be keen to do what you said and observe a good officer.
Kind Regards,
Graham Sexton
Cheers Graham
I can understand Graham’s confusion. The problem we faced on the sailing committee was that we had to re-write the sailing instructions on-the-hoof. Earlier in the season, the sandhoppers were allowed to sail through the gate on their downwind leg. This presented problems for those on the upwind leg, especially if the line was short or the leward mark was close to the committee boat. We resolved this by re-writing the instructions.
There were further amendments as the season wore on. For example, classes can now set their own courses PROVIDED the race officer agrees.
Good morning Graham, we did speak briefly on Sunday about this being in the sailing instructions. As a person with some experience on both sides of the fence I would say its a matter of etiquette over rules. Where easily possible avoid the line going downwind as it does sometimes cause confusion to the RO. Also whether it is in the rules or not will then not matter. I have never sailed a course requiring the boats to go through the start/finish gate downwind.
The other thing to bear in mind is that the Sailing Instructions are only our small part of the greater rules picture as prescribed by the RYA every 4 years. If you have the time it is worth a scan over the rules in general concerning courses and flag signals etc. – which are available from the RYA.
On our circuit we obviously sail windward leewards all the time. It is always in the S.I’s as to whether or not you have to avoid the gate downwind for the convenience of the PRO. There are sometimes great advantages to gain from going through it downwind, especially as Andrew said, if you have a wide line near to the leward gate/mark. Not forgetting, that boats that sail very low angles downwind, might in some cases have to alter their vmg course according to the rule about the startline downwind.
All i’d like to know, for future trophy races, is how would I find out about if i’m allowed to sail through it downwind? As there are no flags or implications i have seen in the S.I’s. I would only like confirmation as it seems that on Saturday – some people deliberately avoided it (thinking they weren’t allowed), whilst others went through it.
Hi Graham. if it is not in the SI’s it is not a mark of the course and can therfore be sailed through at will. I just think that it is best avoided generally to help the RO.
Great to see this has cause some spirited conversation.
This can only help the Sailing committee and future race officers
Paul, what you say is very true. I think steering clear of the gate on the downwind leg, was intended for the sandhoppers in their normal club points racing. Graham correctly questions whether the sandhopper rule applies to everyone.
When you and Martin set the course, were you expecting boats to sail outside the gate, on the downwind leg?
ok, here’s my $0.02 worth,
The sailing committee approved some SSI’s when the Sandhopper Class requested only upwind/downwind courses, these were published on the website under racing and on the notice board back in June and precludes passing through the start finish line when sailing an upwind/downwind course.
It’s so long ago I’d forgotten it and it was originally for the Sandhoppers and fast Assymmetrics during club racing as the gate was getting very crowded. It wasn’t intended for Trophy races as it wasn’t envisaged that a trophy race would be an upwind/downwind course, however the way I worded it would imply that we don’t go through the gate for an upwind/downwind course at TBYC.
So, appologies,I’d forgotten, I’ll update the complete sailing instructions for 2011 to include this wording so it’s clearer and I’ll retire from Saturday’s race as I went through the gate on the first lap.
As for what the flags all mean, we have a refresher evening at the beginning of the year which goes through starting procedure and has some talks from some emminent club sailors, happy to share they wisdom and experience and I’d encourage anyone who races to come along, have a beer and a meal and maybe learn something.
As this will be next year, can I point anyone not sure of the flags and starting procedures to the links on the left which should explain all you need to know.
The objective of weekend sailing is to enjoy ourselves, now if you didn’t enjoy yourself just because you went through the gate on the downwind leg then by all means retire, but if you had a great days sailing why spoil it over what I consider after the event to be a minor issue.
ps
The main issue of this thread is for it not to happen again.
Regards Spratty
I’m with Paul on that one – retiring is not at all necessary Chris!
For the sake of the race on Saturday, i think we all agree that it wouldn’t have made the blindest bit of difference given the conditions. This given the position of the marks on the race course and length of start line.
As Paul said, the issue of the thread was for clarification which has been sorted. So thanks for everyone’s help with my questions. I hope it has helped other people as well as me!!
Graham
Last word, honestly! When the Sprints saw the windward-leward course on the blackboard, we gave a collective yawn. As it was, we didn’t mind it. The wind was fresh enough. Also, I am sure the sandhoppers enjoyed seeing extra boats on the downwind track.
Sorry Andrew could not let you have the last word.
It’s as much as they can do to get the sprints through the gate at the start let alone the downwind leg. he he he he
Spratty